I see in the paper
Posted: 14 March 2014 05:06 PM   [ Ignore ]
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the board has authorized 76 million for housing for 540 new students.

My calculator comes up with 140 thousand dollars per new student.

Seems a little… steep, doesn’t it?

 

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Posted: 16 March 2014 02:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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The bond issue isn’t just for construction of a new dorm; it’s also for construction of a dining hall and for renovation of Goodnow and Marlatt Halls as well. Those hold about 600 students each.

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Posted: 16 March 2014 03:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Renovation?  Of the rooms?  That’s not what the article I read said.

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Posted: 16 March 2014 04:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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From the front page article in Friday’s Mercury….

“In addition to a $20 million bond resolution for the $45 million engineering expansion project, the regents passed a resolution for the Kansas Development Finance Authority to issue a $70 million bond for the $76 million housing construction project.

‘This is just a part of their plan for making sure they have adequate housing and dining for stuĀ­dents,’ Tompkins said.

The housing project includes renovations to Marlatt and Goodnow residence halls.

The proposed site for the new residence hall and dining center is on the Kramer Complex which currently includes the two halls and Kramer dining center.

The new hall and dining center are expected to be completed in fall of 2015 and projected to accommodate 540 students in twobed rooms. The dining hall will serve 1,850 students.”

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Posted: 16 March 2014 05:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Doh!  For some reason, I thought that had to do with the dining thing.  How are they going to renovate the living quarters with students living in them?

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Posted: 16 March 2014 05:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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The Board of Regents agenda for their last meeting has a lot of the details (see p. 20):
https://kansasregents.org/resources/PDF/2881-AgendaMarch12-13,2014Reader.pdf

Dorm renovations will take place in the summers over a period of six years.

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Posted: 16 March 2014 05:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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It doesn’t say what they’re doing to the other halls.  Nothing about improvement of the rooms.  It does say that there’s going to be a monster dining hall built.

So, it still comes down to $140K/student housing added, doesn’t it?

[ Edited: 16 March 2014 05:27 PM by Randall Baughman ]
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Posted: 16 March 2014 06:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Randall, I’m not sure what you’re looking at. On p. 20 of the Regents agenda I linked to, it says:

“the Board approved consolidation of building a
new residence hall and dining center along with renovations to
Marlatt and Goodnow Hall for $70 million. . . . The renovation of the
adjacent Goodnow and Marlatt Residence Halls is an important
component within this program for providing safe and functional
housing for our students.”

The increase from $70 million to $76 million comes with an additional 6th floor to the new dorm. That suggests the new six-floor dorm will cost somewhere around $36 million, leaving $40 million for a new dining hall and renovations to Marlatt and Goodnow. That puts the cost per student of the new dorm at (ballpark) $66,000. Dorm construction typically costs between $60-$80K per student, so the projected K-State facility is pretty much in line with national averages.

[ Edited: 16 March 2014 06:45 PM by Dave Stone ]
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Posted: 16 March 2014 07:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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I saw that.  It doesn’t actually say there’ll be room renovations, nor does it say so on page 28, where there’s more of the same general language..  I don’t believe that a 6th floor indicates a 6th of the cost.  I’m pretty sure that’s not the way it works.

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Posted: 16 March 2014 07:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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I guess I’m just not clear what point you’re trying to make. You seemed to be concerned that the new dorm was going to cost $140K per student. So all my ballpark estimates above were only intended to show that the cost of the new dorm will be well below that, given that the $76 million is supposed to cover several large projects. Likewise, I’m not sure where you’re going with Goodnow and Marlatt—it sounds as though you’re concerned that KSU will renovate a dorm but somehow not renovate the rooms in the dorm.

So what is it that you’re trying to say, exactly?

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Posted: 16 March 2014 07:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Couldn’t care less, Dave.  Not sure where you’re coming from, either.  You seem to want to say that an added floor can be used as a solid fractional percentage of the cost of the building.  I don’t believe that to be true.  Nor do I believe that renovations to the common areas of existing structures would require a significant percentage of that $76,000,000.  Perhaps if a break-down were available, even a general one, between new construction and renovation,  I could answer my own questions. 

As I recall, those rooms in the existing buildings are cinderblock, and incorporated into the structure of the building.  Which means their size can’t be changed.  So, what are you thinking?  Carpets?  Windows, maybe?

[ Edited: 16 March 2014 07:50 PM by Randall Baughman ]
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Posted: 17 March 2014 04:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Randall, the PDF (did you even read it?) says the Marlatt and Goodnow Hall renovations include HVAC, sprinklers, lighting, ceilings, plumbing, fire alarms, re-roofing and ADA improvements.

The dining center will serve 1850 students and the dorms will serve 600. Assuming overlap, we’re looking at the $76M funding 1250 students, not the 540 figure you’re using. Also, your figures would be cost per student for one year; obviously, these improvements are expected to last longer than that. Even using your $140K/student/year figure, if these renovations last only 10 years, that drops it to $14K/student/year. But unless I missed some major renovation project, I don’t think these have been renovated since the 1990s when I was a student, so we’re probably looking at improvements, especially in HVAC and the roofing, which should last 20 years with repairs in the interim, reducing the per-student cost significantly.

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Posted: 17 March 2014 06:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Stacia, I went to page 20, as instructed, then scrolled down looking for a list of improvements and came upon the same general language on page 28.  Ceiling and lighting replacement, obviously, would be required if new fire sprinklers were installed. Plumbing to common bathroom facilities would only make sense since they’re running new sprinkler pipes to the floors.  The individual rooms don’t have plumbing.  Roofing is roofing, and needs attention periodically, anyway.  New thermal windows would have been nice, and would have required a sizable investment.  But, I still don’t think you can decide what is a per-student cost for the housing until you see a breakdown of the new construction/renovation costs.

The dining hall, as I understood it, was to serve all three buildings, which would mean that existing dining halls would be “renovated” to some other use.  Apparently not residential (bed) space.

I understand the 140K/student wouldn’t be for one year, any more than ANY student housing purchased is for a single year.  I just considered 76 million dollars for the addition of 540 actual beds to be high.  I still do.

I’m just asking these questions out of curiosity.

[ Edited: 17 March 2014 06:40 AM by Randall Baughman ]
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Posted: 20 March 2014 05:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Right, there’s a difference between the pages printed in the PDF, and the page you’ll get if you type “20” into Adobe, I forgot to clarify that. It’s page 20 if you go by what’s shown on the bottom right corner of the pages in the document.

Glancing around I saw various construction costs estimated at something like $170-$230 per square foot when HVAC is involved, so I have to assume the base costs of these items are pretty damn pricey, more so considering this is all old construction. And I’d also suspect that (ahem) overestimates are the norm in construction rather than the exception.

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