Big 12 Basketball Champs???!!!!???
Posted: 06 May 2013 02:07 PM   [ Ignore ]
Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  801
Joined  2012-10-10

So, will the NCAA vacate any of the ‘Hawks wins over the McLemore issue?  If even one league win was vacated, can the ‘Cats remove the “CO” from the banner/trophy?  Will the Big 12 cowtow to KU and allow them to keep the trophy/title, even if the NCAA were to vacate wins?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 07 May 2013 09:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  39
Joined  2012-10-11

Pretty slippery slope with this.  I know the letter of the law says they should but I don’t know if it would be justified.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 May 2013 01:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  119
Joined  2012-10-28

Just call me “Not Relevant” ...In My Opinion stripping teams/schools of records/championships is a waste of time.  Change the future? sure, why not, but try to revise history?  I think not.

For example USC won the national championship in 2004, so technically they didn’t win the Championship, but yet, you can not have a conversation about the 2004 football season without someone stating teh obvious, USC won the 2004 Championship.

So they had to give up a piece of hardware,  won’t change the fact that everyone remembers they won it.  Won’t change the TEVO recordings thousand of people have of the game…

If KU was forced to surrender its 2013 Big 12 Basketball Co-Championship, would any sane rational K State fan feel comfortable saying that K State won the Big 12 when KU beat them not once, not twice, but three times???

it really is a trivial pursuit. IMO

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 May 2013 11:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  39
Joined  2012-10-11

Perfect statement Gray.  Only the NCAA believes taking things away that have already happens hurts an institution!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 17 May 2013 08:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  76
Joined  2012-10-11

Gray, those thoughts line right up with KU and some of the rocket wisdom they rattle about. Needless to say when you win THREE times as you say and had to CHEAT to do it, then for me that is really NOT a win. That’s an exhibition game with a team of cheaters. Yet go figure they have an imaginary crow for a mascot. I wonder what else will be dug up, tine will tell.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 17 May 2013 11:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  119
Joined  2012-10-28

Well Dave If and When the NCAA vacates any of KU’s conference tournament wins you can proudly stand up and claim K State the undisputed 2013 Basketball Champion.  But how are you going to get teh foul taste out of your mouth of having been beaten three times by a bunch of cheaters?  Are you one of those folks that considers any loss to the rocket scientists in the imaginary crow suit, a fate worse than death?

You know there is such a thing as spirited competition and spirited rivalry, but there is also such a thing as irrational behavior, and I’m not sure but I suspect that when you reach the point that your support for your favorite sports team surpasses your support for your favorite deity, “You might be irrational”.  I suspect when your hatred of a sports rival so clouds your thinking that you don’t afford your competitors the same honor and respect you afford members of your own religion, “You might be irrational” 

It is typical in sports (especially college football) for fans to replace “Do unto others as you would have them   do unto you”  , with “Do unto others before they have a chance to do it to you”

As a proud, sane (I think, sometimes others disagree with me) and rational individual, I ask myself what would Coach Snyder do?  Short Answer:  I don’t have a clue.  Long answer: I don’t really know but I believe Coach Snyder would say,  “lets concern ourselves with our own abilities and controlling our own behavior and not worry about what others do, lets take care of what we can take care of and lets stand on our own abilities.

Will you take my Wildcat Card away from me Dave if I simply State that I prefer the Wildcats stand or fall on their own abilities?  And if by chance we/they fall, lets not cry and whine and look for revisionists to “fix it” for us.

What do you say Dave, Can I still be a Wildcat fan?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 May 2013 11:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  76
Joined  2012-10-11

Gray, when you replied I was standing on my boat catching fish, so it has taken this long to find the time to respond.
Well Dave If and When the NCAA vacates any of KU’s conference tournament wins you can proudly stand up and claim K State the undisputed 2013 Basketball Champion. But how are you going to get teh foul taste out of your mouth of having been beaten three times by a bunch of cheaters?
Foul taste? I think not, why would I have a foul taste from being beaten by a team that went to that level to win?

Are you one of those folks that considers any loss to the rocket scientists in the imaginary crow suit, a fate worse than death?

Not hardly as long as they play by the rules everyone else has to then I have no problem with a loss. Sure I may not like it but I will hardly faint over it.

You know there is such a thing as spirited competition and spirited rivalry, but there is also such a thing as irrational behavior, and I’m not sure but I suspect that when you reach the point that your support for your favorite sports team surpasses your support for your favorite deity, “You might be irrational”. I suspect when your hatred of a sports rival so clouds your thinking that you don’t afford your competitors the same honor and respect you afford members of your own religion, “You might be irrational”

They gain respect by being respectful in the winning process. Cheating is NOT a respectful or even honorable process. Or do you think that is how things are to be done now days?

It is typical in sports (especially college football) for fans to replace “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” , with “Do unto others before they have a chance to do it to you” As a proud, sane (I think, sometimes others disagree with me) and rational individual, I ask myself what would Coach Snyder do? Short Answer: I don’t have a clue. Long answer: I don’t really know but I believe Coach Snyder would say, “lets concern ourselves with our own abilities and controlling our own behavior and not worry about what others do, lets take care of what we can take care of and lets stand on our own abilities.

As for Coach Snyder I would agree that would more than likely that would be his stance. Yet unlike you I think if there are not complaints about the cheating processes of some then will it go unpunished allowing them to continue their cheating ways.

Will you take my Wildcat Card away from me Dave if I simply State that I prefer the Wildcats stand or fall on their own abilities? And if by chance we/they fall, lets not cry and whine and look for revisionists to “fix it” for us.

I prefer the Cats stand alone on top of a class acting group of teams. Class acting requires they play by the rules.

What do you say Dave, Can I still be a Wildcat fan?

Be a Fan of what every team you choose, I really do not care. Yet at least choose on that attempts to play by the rules first and hopefully come out with a win in the process.
In the end I would like to think that ALL of the coaches and teams at K-State would play by the rules and do so with honor and be respectful of the opposing team. If they don’t and are not then the higher ups need to deal the cards out and get that fixed. Seems they have done a darned good job up till now and have made every attempt to maintain integrity in their process.

On another note, as for you members of your own religion statement, if I have a religion then I am the only member. That too is someone’s imagination running amuck. So good luck with that one.

Don’t know how the puctutations will come out maybe this will be clear to understand - - or not.  good luck (ha had to fix it anyway)

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 May 2013 12:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  119
Joined  2012-10-28

Not hardly as long as they play by the rules everyone else has to then I have no problem with a loss. Sure I may not like it but I will hardly faint over it.

You know, I am with you in principle.

But as a practical matter I just can’t get behind elevating a team to Championship Status because the competition Champion was vacated for infractions or violations.  (for example can you tell me who the 2004 BCS Football Champions is? or who the 2004 Heisman Trophy winner is?  According to the BCS and the Heisman Committee they don’t exist).

I have a theory when it comes to infractions.  I believe/think/suspect there are two types of schools in the infractions arena, those who have been caught violating the rules and those who have not been caught YET.

I may be right and I may be wrong, but I would prefer not be be caught throwing stones only to find I live in a glass house.  There are plenty of stones elsewhere and surely there are enough people throwing them without me getting involved.

I guess in summary I would say, I’m not going to join you in a smackdown of the chickenhawks, but I’m not turning off the power on your microphone either.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 May 2013 12:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  76
Joined  2012-10-11

Wouldn’t be the first time I was kicked in the chins for running my mouth and as I get older I tend to say what I think even more than years past. That too is not always a good thing, but, at least everyone knows where I stand on a given issue.  Yet if everyone just stands by then there will be no rules or control which will allow all sorts of things to happen. Who knows who the champs are from the past years who knows who won what hunk of polished metal and after five years passing who really cares? It’s the here and now that seems to be the way society is now days anyway. Give it to me now I’ll pay the price later!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 May 2013 02:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  119
Joined  2012-10-28

seems to be the way society is now days

Sad but absolutely True.

It permeates every level of society.

What you wrote in your last post reminded me of something I heard an Arizona Land Developer say as the Arizona Superior Court was handing him a $2 Million fine for bulldozing through some protected Apache ruins to develop a subdivision… he said “I’d rather ask for forgivenes than ask for permission”

I have since heard that same expression many time from Real Estate “developers” and contractors.

So after reading your last post I googled “I’d rather ask forgivness than permission” and came across this link

http://workawesome.com/office-life/ask-forgiveness-not-permission/

This is a clear indication that this thought process/principle/value/belief….has permeated society at every level.  This is as far as I am concerned evidence that our entire society is corrupt from the top down and from the bottom up.

 

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 May 2013 02:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  76
Joined  2012-10-11

Business Ethics has now become “Businesses UNETHICAL”
The trend to make, beg, borrow and steal as much as one can in a given span of time has corrupted many. A perception of accomplishments also pads a pocket. Such is the driving force to cheat in the processes and rules established. Only correction is no holds barred punishments “Hit ‘em in the pockets” and plenty of jail time.

Profile
 
 
   
 

Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | The Manhattan Mercury, 318 North 5th Street, Manhattan, Kansas, 66502

Reproduction of any kind is prohibited without written consent.